Violent Islamic groups tarred the image of moderate Muslims...and more terrorist attacks "would change the religious scene dramatically and provoke ferocious retaliation".How could we do this? Angelo Persichilli writes in the Toronto Sun:
"We have to acknowledge, too, that the ideological struggle against Islamist violence in the Muslim community is one in which most of the heavy lifting has to be done by Muslims opposed to extremism, but we should be prepared to help them in this task in ways which are effective and which build trust and openness instead of fear and ghettoisation."
Not only are they not integrating into Canadian society, but they are retreating into their own culture and communities, recreating their own country in Canadian neighbourhoods. The policy of multiculturalism is helping them in this endeavour.
However, there is a major detail most of these recent stories in the mainstream media don't report: It is not the new immigrants using multiculturalism to retreat into their ghettos, it is the mainstream using multiculturalism to encourage immigrants to remain in their ghettos.
...Canada is heading toward a social disaster. We have been too concerned about making Canada than creating Canadians. But please, stop blaming the immigrants. We are ready to become Canadian citizens, just tell us what that means.
And this is true. Newcomers to Canada, and otherwise, often report that there isn't even such a thing as Canadian culture. Look here at muslimmatters.org where the poster scoffs at the suggestion of adapting to Canadian culture and asks, "what exactly is Canadian culture?" This is the prevailing attitude.
18 comments:
Muslims, a lot of them anyway, simply will not assimilate into Western culture.
Personally, I worry more about Muslim immigration and Islamifying demographics than about spectacular jihadist attacks.
I agree completely with Always on Watch. We are engineering the demise of our own country and culture with great ignorance and uncaring as to the consequences.
To the Muslim who said:
"what exactly is Canadian culture?"
Answer: Nothing like yours. But there is a place for you. It's called home!
023350955
"We are ready to become Canadian citizens, just tell us what that means"
It, number one, means learning and speaking English (or French, preferably both if you live in Quebec). Speaking it at home with your kids. Take out some books on Canadian history and read them. Visit sites of historical Canadian significance.
What is Canadian culture? So many things, depending on what part of Canada you live in. Each part of the country is like a country of its own, living on the East coast is nothing like living on the prairies or in Toronto or Vancouver. For me, it's skating or toboganning even if it's minus twenty. It's the best fishing in the world in northern Saskatchewan (as well as the msot breathtaking sunsets in the world). It's Taste of the Danforth in Toronto on a hot summer Sunday night. It's buying a cowboy hat to wear to the Stampede. It's the Caribana parade. It's watching Corner Gas or going to a BC Lions game (they kick butt). There's not enough space and I haven't lived in all parts of Canada, but we MOST DEFINITELY have a culture, a lot more than just double double at Timmy's and Hockey Night in Canada.
If people who come here would get out of their comfort zone and broaden their horizons a little, you'll get Canadian culture and fall in love with it, no matter what part of the country you choose to live in.
I've been in Canada for 12 years now. I am of Eastern European origin. Now, I have to say I understand the cluelessness of immigrants with regards to Canadian culture. It's been tough for myself to figure it out, and maybe I still haven't. The problem with this can be spotted in the long attempt made by the previous commenter. He describes Canadian activities, but he cannot say in a short paragragh what being Canadian actually IS.
The one thing I've noticed, is that Canadians consistently brag of NOT being Americans. This is the one definition Canadians from everywhere agree upon. And it tells volumes that this definition is actually a negation of someone else's identity. Beyond that, Canada is a fuzzy notion that invites a newcomer to fill with his/her own meaning. Soft matter doesn't have a breaking point because it will take the shape given by the forces pushing it. Canada won't ever break because it's too fluid for that.
The only way I can pin down what this country stands for is by remembering it's part of the Judeo-Christian West. However, for someone with no Western heritage it's all too easy to treat it like a blank slate perfect for a different design altogether.
Hi,
I'm AnonyMouse, the poster from MuslimMatters, and I just wanted so say a few things in response to your post:
1) I didn't scoff at "the idea of integrating to Canadian culture." The question, "What is Canadian culture" is in fact something posed to my entire Social Studies class, to think over what Canada's really about and what our culture is today. So blame B.C.'s ministry of education, not me.
2) Where I live (B.C.), ghettoisation just isn't happening, whether it's amongst Muslims or others (Surrey being the only exception, but even IT is not a real ghetto). Remember - ghettoisation is the result of socioeconomic status. The vast majority of (Muslim) immigrants in Canada are professionals of the highest calibre... unfortunately, the reason a lot of them aren't able to practice careers here is because their credentials aren't accepted, a policy that needs to change because we're fast losing the ability to tap into this potential (America ends up taking them all).
Furthermore, they constantly push their children to be the BEST in school, to get the BEST education and the BEST career. They make a concerted effort to contribute to society.
"But there is a place for you. It's called home!"
*Falls over laughing*
Canada IS my home. My dad grew up in Chilliwack and Ottawa. I've also grown up in B.C. My two youngest brothers have been born here. We're Canadian, through and through.
Where are you thinking of sending us back to?
"It, number one, means learning and speaking English."
Done. English is my first and only language. I'm 100% fluent, in some cases even more so than my own teachers at school.
"Take out some books on Canadian history and read them."
Social Studies makes sure I do.
"Visit sites of historical Canadian significance."
My parents make sure I do.
"It's watching Corner Gas"
Got that covered. I LOVE Corner Gas! (Haven't been able to catch it much lately because of school, though.)
"For me, it's skating or toboganning even if it's minus twenty."
Absolutely! Although, thank God, B.C. never gets minus twenty! :)
"If people who come here would get out of their comfort zone and broaden their horizons a little"
It's sort of impossible for immigrants to NOT be exposed to Canadian culture. Like I said, ghettoisation isn't happening in Canada. You're being paranoid. Immigrants who don't speak English learn how to speak English, whether by choice or by force/ neccessity; they interact with all sorts of people on a daily basis the moment they step foot out the door... and that's part of the beauty of multiculturalism in Canada!
You want to reject multiculturalism - but what would that leave you with? Caucasians are slowly being outnumbered by other ethnicities, who aren't neccessarily immigrants (and if you have a problem with that, you're racist). This has been reflected in our current culture - which, aside from speaking English, going tobogganing, watching Corner Gas, etc. includes open-mindedness and a welcoming attitude to others, an eagerness to learn more about others' differences and to not be hateful against them.
Let's not forget that since the Canadian Multiculturalism Act became part of our country's law, a new dimension was added to Canada's culture: values of tolerance, respect, and empathy. I never, ever want Canada to return to the days when non-whites were exploited for work yet totally discriminated against, with few rights and with racist attitudes making their struggles for equality and acceptance more difficult every day.
Immigrants are not doing us any harm. In fact, they're doing us an amazing amount of good because they're not just bumming around and living on welfare; the majority of them are working hard to make money and get an education, and spurring their children on to higher goals. These are all things which are contributing to Canadian society, economically, artistically, socially, culturally.
If we want to be different in some ways, then that's our RIGHT under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. You can't stop Muslim women from wearing the hijaab, or Sikh men from wearing turbans. You can't stop us from being close to the people with whom we have things in common, whether it be ethnicity or race.
"The one thing I've noticed, is that Canadians consistently brag of NOT being Americans."
Hahaha, that just reminded me of a book I came across in the B.C. ferries gift shop! I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, but it was by two guys (both Canadian) poking fun at the way we can never really figure out who we are... ahhhh, I should've written down the title to pick up from the library!
anonymouse:
Maybe you in particular weren't scoffing at the idea. Maybe I was mistaken on that, and I apologise if I misrepresented your position.
Maybe in B.C. there isn't much ghettoisation of Muslims. In Ontario, where most Muslims in Canada live, there is. Muslims generally live together in their own boroughs. And it doesn't have to do with economic status. Some of these ghettos are quite rich, some are quite poor.
For anecdotal evidence as to the connection, look at some of the terrorists were caught planning to behead Harper. Six of them were all in the same ghetto in Meadowvale. Others were ghettoized too.
"If we want to be different in some ways, then that's our RIGHT under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. You can't stop Muslim women from wearing the hijaab, or Sikh men from wearing turbans", you say.
Who actually says it's not your right? What we want is the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to be ENFORCED. That includes the right to freedom of association and freedom of speech. Freedom of association means that we may associate with whoever we so choose for any reason we deem adequate. If we don't want to hire someone to work at MY business, too bad for that person because that's my freedom of association. And they're free not to hire me at their business. If I don't want to rent MY apartment to someone: too bad for that person because that's my freedom of association. And they're free not to rent there things to me. If someone is offended by something I express: too bad for that person because that's my freedom of speech. And they're free to offend me if they so choose.
Those freedoms are in every way infringed nowadays in the name of multiculturalism.
"Those freedoms are in every way infringed nowadays in the name of multiculturalism."
Really? How?
Yah, there's a lot of emphasis on political correctness and stuff, but so far I haven't seen much legal action being taken just because someone was "offended."
However, in the example you gave - of hiring people - then I think that's slightly different because it's out-and-out bigotry if you decline someone because they're Muslim. Discrimination is NOT protected by the Charter, and the excuse that it's part of freedom of association doesn't hold very well.
Furthermore, attitudes like that are what lead to comments such as the one posted by "sounder" here - telling us to "go back home". Like I said, go back home WHERE?! Canada IS my home!
I think there's a difference between freedom of speech/ opinion/ belief and then inciting hatred (telling Muslims to leave, hate crimes against Muslims). It's not so much about giving/ taking offence, it's about the consequences that kind of attitude can have on Canada and on Canadians.
Furthermore, on the subject of ghettoisation: what exactly is wrong with it? If it's not breeding crime, if it's not damaging Canada in any way... then what's wrong with it? Isn't ghettoisation, in a way, an example of people exercising their freedom of movement (choosing to live close to whoever they want)?
The insinuation in the title of your blog post is that gettoisation will result in breeding terrorism, but that's not neccessarily true. Really, it just seems to be a scare tactic - ooooh, all the Muslims are coming to Canada and living close to each other and now they're going to start killing us! A far stretch of the imagination. (And bringing up the 17 kids case doesn't work, because there's a LOT of doubt surrounding the case - how information was gathered and how it's going to hold up in court and so on. Maclean's had a piece on it relatively recently.)
Muslims here have it a lot better than they do in, say, France; as such, few if any will entertain thoughts of terrorism. The overwhelming majority of us condemn terrorism and are repulsed by it, and would never even dream of engaging in such acts against Canada. It is, after all, the country we've built our lives in and on which we're depending for the future.
Dear Canadian Muslim, I'll give you a crystal clear example of ghettoisation, from Toronto:
"TORONTO - A Toronto mosque is telling Muslims not to say “Happy Thanksgiving” or invite friends into their homes for turkey dinner on the holiday weekend.
The Khalid Bin Al-Walid Mosque says to “avoid participating” in dinners, parties or greetings on Thanksgiving because it is a kuffaar, or non-Muslim, celebration.
A two-part article on the mosque Web site says Muslims should also “stay completely away” from “Halloween trick-and treat nonsense,” Christmas, New Year’s, anniversaries, birthdays and Earth Day.
“How can we bring ourselves to congratulate or wish people well for their disobedience to Allah? Thus expressions such as:Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Birthday, Happy New Year, etc, are completely out,” it says.
In 2003, the Khalid mosque, which mainly serves the Toronto Somali-Canadian community, apologized for a newsletter that compared wishing someone a Merry Christmas to congratulating a murderer.
At the time, a junior employee was blamed for the slight, but the mosque’s Web site has since posted similar edicts covering not only Christmas but also virtually every other Western celebration.
Muslims who participate in the holidays are termed ignorant and hypocritical.
While not all are religious holidays, the Internet site says Muslims are required to be different from non-Muslims “in matters which are representative of them or are characteristic of their identity.”
Also banned, it says, are: watching sports or soap operas, walking dogs, family photos, wedding bands, Western hats, mingling and shaking hands with the opposite sex.
“Allah and his messenger have warned us against following or imitating non-Muslims in things which are characteristic of their religion or beliefs. This is more emphasized in the case of their eids [festivals] or occasions, which always hold some religious or ideological non-Islamic meanings, and on which the kuffaar indulge in many evil practices.”
The Web site also has a question-and-answer section, which advises that Muslims can join political parties only if they are “able to exert some influence on the direction of the party so that it will take an Islamic direction.”
Elsewhere in the Q&A section, it says that, “with strong determination and patience, the world will God-willing be under the Muslims’ control.”
The mosque is run by a federally registered charity. Rival factions within the Somali Muslim community are fighting in court for control of the charity. The mosque president could not be reached yesterday."
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=0821a06b-a34d-4e76-aaf9-b3015c1a37bb&k=66020
It is this kind of Muslim propaganda that I strongly oppose. I would like to know what are YOU doing, as a multicultural Canadian and englightened Muslim, to oppose the bigotry and hatred coming from within the Muslim community. Do you intend to write a letter to the imam of Khalid Bin Al-Walid Mosque to protest the way he is representing your own faith? How do you deal with intolerance preached by Muslim religious figures? Do you address it in any meaningful way, do you stand up for respect especially when it's trampled by people of your own faith?
"And bringing up the 17 kids case doesn't work, because there's a LOT of doubt surrounding the case - how information was gathered and how it's going to hold up in court and so on. Maclean's had a piece on it relatively recently."
Those are not 17 kids. Don't kid yourself. By the way, what is JIHAD? Inner struggle to better oneself, ain't it so? Maclean's had a piece on it.
Muslims are using our rights and freedoms, our very liberal society against us by turning the tables while treating us all as inferior (see emil's post which shows no sign of integration), at the same time claiming victimization by 'racists'. The pot calling the kettle black. ALWAYS.
No Happy Thanksgiving?, No Merry Christmas? No wonder:
'O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.'
Compliments of wonderfully multicultural Islam.
"It is this kind of Muslim propaganda that I strongly oppose."
Ummmmm, how is it propoganda? If they believe that, so be it.
They're not hurting you, they're not telling each other to kill you, they're not saying "Don't integrate!"
Saying Merry Christmas and Happy Thanksgiving isn't a sign of whether you're "integrated" or "multicultural." It's just not participating in your holidays. I don't remember it saying anywhere that to be a Canadian, you MUST take part in these occasions.
How are they hurting Canada's multiculturalism? Are they demanding that YOU stop celebrating those occasions? Of course not.
"Do you address it in any meaningful way, do you stand up for respect especially when it's trampled by people of your own faith?"
As a supporter of social justice, someone who hopes to help make this world a better place, I try my best to speak out against bigotry, racism, and discrimination no matter who is committing it.
Do YOU?
"By the way, what is JIHAD?"
*Rolls eyes*
Let me guess - another LGFer?
As you well know, Jihad is of many types: defensive and offensive physical fighting (under strict conditions, one of them being the existence of an Islamic State, which currently does not exist anywhere in the world); inner Jihad (the spiritual one); Jihad of the tongue and of the pen (speaking/ writing against injustice), etc.
Anyhow, since it's obvious that y'all refuse to accept Muslim Canadians as equal citizens who are NOT out to kill you all, I'll save my breath and do what I always do: live my life as a Muslim Canadian striving to make this country, and this world, a better place, God willing.
Again, this is NEVER condemned at all:
'O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.'
Emil and sounder; Great posts"
!
I to would like to hear a proper response to
"It is this kind of Muslim propaganda that I strongly oppose. I would like to know what are YOU doing, as a multicultural Canadian and enlightened Muslim, to oppose the bigotry and hatred coming from within the Muslim community. Do you intend to write a letter to the imam of Khalid Bin Al-Walid Mosque to protest the way he is representing your own faith? How do you deal with intolerance preached by Muslim religious figures? Do you address it in any meaningful way, do you stand up for respect especially when it's trampled by people of your own faith?
Substitute British for Canadian, and the Muslim Council of Great Britain for the Mosque ... because we need answers about this exact same stuff over here too!
than you thoughtcriminal:
Further:
"Anyhow, since it's obvious that y'all refuse to accept Muslim Canadians as equal citizens who are NOT out to kill you all"
YOU are not the problem. The problem is your brothers and sisters in Islam who are out to "convert, subdue or kill" unbelievers.
If you and your fellow Muslims really want to "make this country, and this world, a better place, God willing.", stop evading this enormous issue, stop painting ordinary Canadians as ignorant racists and misunderstanders who express their dissent and do something about the hatred for Jews, the jihad, the hateful spews calling for violence in the mosques, stop dividing our nation by expecting ordinary Canadians to bow to every whim, to do all the accommodating. Stop crying victimhood, it's transparent.
Continually defending by attack or ridicule won't work, ever.
Islamophobia is being used to cover the real problem with Islam. It cannot be whitewashed in that way. Only actions and results by moderates can change the perception and acceptance.
One article put it this way: islamophobia "inverts victim and perpetrator by portraying Islamic fanatics as the victim, thus allowing them to label dissent as a violation of human rights and, in effect, silence dissent."
Muslims act out this every day. We are expected to ignore the elephant in the room out of political correctness. We are not stupid and we are on to all of it.
Destroy Islamic extremism and your words become meaningful. Talk is cheap.
"As a supporter of social justice, someone who hopes to help make this world a better place, I try my best to speak out against bigotry, racism, and discrimination no matter who is committing it.
Do YOU?"
Yes, I do. I did write to the imam of that mosque. When do YOU plan to do so?
Cut the crap. You're not in Social Studies class.
Anonymouse:
What is bigotry, anonymouse? Can you even define it? Is it the irrational opposition to a person, group of persons or other things? What is rational? Who is qualified to make the choices as to what is rational or irrational? Have not a multitude of philosophers all debated what exactly is rational and what is not, and there has been no consensus? Is it irrational to believe in God? Some have argued this. Is it irrational to favour yourself over others? Some have argued this. So, is it irrational to choose someone you like over over someone you dislike? You seem to argue this. But on what basis? Have you developed some sort of crystal clear moral philosophy that you are just waiting to publish and bring an end to the mounds of metaethical and normative-ethical debates? But none of this matters, because the charter of rights and freedoms does not say "you have the freedom of association as long as it's rational and not bigoted." It says you have the freedom of association. That's it. End of story. Nothing about bigotry or rationality. And a good thing too, because if I was limited to only choose the rational option, I'd have every theocrat, technocrat and autocrat who wants to take away my rights, try to define what is rational and what is not, when they don't know this anymore than I do!
Freedom of association is the freedom to associate with whoever you so choose. With this freedom you don't have to justify your choice to the PC thugs. You don't have to justify it to anyone. With it, you have total freedom to choose for yourself: your friends, your employer, your employees, your family, your patrons and EVERYONE else associated with you. If you don't have the freedom to choose who works for you, you don't have the freedom of association. Employment is an association.
I ask for the right to express my thoughts, and the right to associate with whoever I want. If I start a business, I want the right to choose my friends or family, the people I like, over the people I don't like. That right is infringed in the name of multiculturalism.
In fact you run a very hypocritical approach. On the one hand you say that Muslims should have the freedom to choose who they live with -- to what do you appeal that says they should have this right? (Freedom of association? Ha! Caught you!) And on the other hand, you say that non-Muslims don't have the right to choose who they employ. Full freedom of association is apparently only for Muslims in your position. Maybe I should apply for a job at a private Islamic school, I don't know, for Quranic studies or something. And then when I don't get hired (because the school naturally disagrees with me) call the school owners a bunch of bigots for not hiring even one non-Muslim! "By the dog! Multiculturalism is good, and all people should have equal-opportunity! An Islamic school should hire 97% Non-Muslims because 97% of people are non-Muslim in Canada! Even though it's an Islamic school, you know, for Muslims!" This I could screech just like those who say as you do. How absurd.
To answer your last question about ghettoisation: This post was exactly about what was wrong with it -- it has the tendency to foment terrorism. If you don't think terrorism is "wrong" then I can say only that you may be in a very fitting deen, anonymouse, but maybe not in a fitting state vis-a-vis life or death -- and may you find your proper state! Hopefully in a way incongruent with your philosophy on this subject just mentioned.
Good job Kafir Canada.
I am finding these days, as you do, a very smudgy line between whats good for the goose is not good for the gander, if you will.
Every single conversation I have ever got into with a Muslim revolves around this; since I am not Muslim and I dare raise concerns over how they (not all) interpret and apply the Koran, either in terrorist acts, or for the most part, defense of this 'inner' struggle or 'freedom fighting' or dead silence (approval?, how racist I am for pointing this out. The left typically holds the same view (thought police in action).
Every discussion is immediately reverted to racism, bigotry and my hatefulness. I'm sure that happens to lots of us.
Of course they also use our freedoms as tool to shut me up.
And, it's not working.
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